Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/27/1999 03:04 PM House HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 191 - CHARTER SCHOOLS CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL announced the first order of business as House Bill No. 191, "An Act relating to charter schools; and providing for an effective date." Number 0156 BRUCE JOHNSON, Director, Teaching and Learning Support, Department of Education, came forward to testify. Mr. Johnson said that the Alaska State Board of Education has indicated the need to expand educational opportunities for students, including the expansion of charter schools. The only caveat of the department is to ensure that any expansion that occurs does so with high program standards and in the best interest of the students being served. Mr. Johnson noted that the department has prepared a fiscal note which totals in the fiscal year (FY) 2000, $161,000. The fiscal note ensures that the department has the resources to guide and facilitate the successful implementation of additional charter schools. If HB 191 were to pass, the charter schools would move beyond the experimentation phase and become institutionalized in Alaska. Upon such, the department would expect to see a number of new charter school applications and work required by the state board. The goal is to facilitate the expansion of charter schools. MR. JOHNSON stated, in response to Co-Chairman Dyson, that would amount to one program specialist and support staff. The department also believes that some on-site support involvement is important. A variety of school districts have indicated that starting a charter school is a major effort and endeavor. The department has been unable to provide much help in that regard and therefore has been left to the individual school districts. Mr. Johnson was certain that in some cases, some good ideas never materialized because there was not enough time to address them. If HB 191 and the accompanying fiscal note were to pass, the department would be able to provide a helping hand for districts and individuals starting charter schools. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE referred to page 2 of the fiscal note and asked if the one range 15 FTD grant administrator is $8,200. MR. JOHNSON clarified that the $8,200 is for a part-time position. Therefore, that grant administrator would only spend a small portion of their time dealing specifically with the charter school. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said then it should be .15. MR. JOHNSON indicated agreement. Number 0459 EDDY JEANS, Manager, School Finance Section, Department of Education, informed the committee that with the passage of SB 36 last year, the department has taken a position in opposition to any changes in the funding formula at this time. The reason for that position is that there are some specific reports that the department must compile and report to the legislature in FY 2001. One of the reports is a comparison between the old foundation formula, instructional units versus the new adjusted student. The department's position is that if amendments continue as time passes, the base from which the analysis is to be done is being lost. As Mr. Johnson testified, the department is in support of the change in the program while in opposition to the change in the foundation formula. Number 0575 LARRY WIGET, Executive Director, Public Affairs, Anchorage School District, testified via teleconference from Anchorage. Mr. Wiget noted that a number of questions were raised regarding the Anchorage School District. In conversations with the Anchorage Assistant Superintendent, Carol Comeau the questions regarding equity have not been clearly delineated for everyone. Ms. Comeau indicated that she would be willing to come to Juneau to work through these issues with the committee and the department. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON noted that since the Saturday meeting some of the concerns have been addressed in some amendments to Section 4 which would be faxed to Mr. Wiget. Co-Chairman Dyson announced that after a few amendments, he intended to have the committee forward HB 191 on to the House Finance Committee. He offered to work with Mr. Wiget and Ms. Comeau in order to clarify the language because there is no intent to create an accounting nightmare. The committee took an at-ease from 3:15 p.m. to 3:16 p.m. CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL requested that Co-Chairman Dyson explain his proposed amendment. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON referred to page 3, line 13 which with his amendment would read as follows: "The budget shall not be less than the aggregate, prorated amount generated by the students enrolled in the charter school relative to the educational services selected by that school". He explained that the intent is to clarify that all the funds that the student generates, whether state, local or federal grant monies, is prorated to the school. He noted that the charter school does not take all the services that the school operates. This amendment would allow, "That they would get that share for those services that they utilize." REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked if that is what is meant by prorated, but not as used in other forms by which all charter schools would be reduced by the same amount. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON continued with the explanation of his proposed amendment. He pointed out the following changes: Page 3, line 17 Delete "the", Insert "all" Page 3, line 18 Delete the first "the" Page 3, line 18 Delete "school" Insert "schools" Page 3, line 18 Delete "a" Page 3, line 19 Delete "student" Insert "students" CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON noted, in reference to the language added on page 3, lines 13-14, that students bring different funding streams. Conversely, different schools avail themselves of different services. Co-Chairman Dyson said that the intention is to be fair. Number 0997 CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON moved his proposed amendments to Section 4 of HB 191. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE objected in order to determine if there is a cleaner way to accomplish this. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE removed his objection. Representative Brice said that he did not oppose the concept. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON commented that his amendment is a conceptual amendment. CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL noted then that there being no objection, the amendment was adopted. CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL referred to page 2, line 23, and asked if the questions regarding the itemization of the cost of administrative services based on a contract was addressed. Further, how would that fit with the conceptual amendment. WES KELLER, Researcher for Representative Dyson, Alaska State Legislature, explained that the concern was that a different accounting system would be imposed. Mr. Keller said that he discussed the issue with the drafter who indicated that the intent with the itemization is similar to a bid for the cost of specific educational services. CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL inquired as to whether "itemized" should be deleted and replaced with "including an estimated cost of administrative services". This seemed to be appropriate with the aggregate language in the adopted amendment. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON stated that in drafting HB 191, the intention is for the district to provide the charter school with an itemized list of the cost options. CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL asked, "Then, if it was going to be the amount of labor costs, for example, they would just say; if we're going to spend anytime, it would be this much per hour rather than saying an accumulation of time spent on facilitating things." CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON said that he would guess that it would be both in some categories. Number 1285 KATHY GILLESPIE, Anchorage School Board, informed the committee that it has already developed a system of charge backs for the charter schools. This allows the charter school the option to contract out the services or contract with the district for services. She believed Co-Chairman Dyson was correct. The district is flexible in that the charter schools can take an entire service or portions of a service if appropriate. CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL said that if statute will specify an itemized list, the proper things should be identified whether it is the cost of the service or the amount of the service. MS. GILLESPIE commented that the district is already spending much time developing billable hour processes and administrative cost processes for charter schools. This has to be taken care of on an individualized basis. Therefore, Ms. Gillespie indicated support of anything that would allow flexibility for individual charter schools. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON reiterated his intention to move HB 191 from committee and take care of any additional areas that need clarification in the House Finance Committee. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN recalled that the word "itemized" was of concern due to the detail and the cost associated with determining costs. Representative Green concurred with Ms. Gillespie. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON requested that Ms. Davis, who had a large part in the passage of the original charter school legislation, come forward. Number 1430 BETTYE DAVIS informed the committee that although she is with the Anchorage School District and the Board of Education, she is not speaking on behalf of either of those affiliations. Although Ms. Davis recognized that Co-Chairman Dyson was interested in passing HB 191 out of committee today, she did not believe there is any urgency in passing it out without addressing some of the fiscal concerns. With regard to the itemized list, Ms. Davis did not believe there is a need for it. She agreed with Ms. Gillespie's comments. Ms. Davis recognized that the cap has been lifted, but they have not reached 30 schools yet. Ms. Davis indicated the need to provide the charter schools with start-up money in order to avoid complications. This is particularly important in Anchorage, where there are local regulations to which the charter schools must adhere. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON noted that the department has provided a $3.6 million fiscal note. He indicated that it would be very helpful if that fiscal note could be forwarded to the House Finance Committee. He noted that he has been in correspondence with the planning department in the Municipality of Anchorage in order to change the fire safety codes in order to allow the charter schools to occupy the same quality spaces that private schools are allowed to occupy. MS. DAVIS said that she appreciated the review of the charter schools, but noted that without the extra funding this cannot be accomplished. CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL announced his intention to report HB 191 out of committee with or without the itemization. REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER inquired as to the bottom line of HB 191. CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON explained that this legislation would extend the contract date due to the difficulties for some schools in obtaining leases. Furthermore, the upper limit is lifted. Co-Chairman Dyson said that the large fiscal note is the result of last year's SB 36 which placed the small schools, which is the case with most of these charter schools, in with the largest school in the district. Therefore, these small schools have to deal with the administrative and overhead cost of being a small school while falling under the financial share of the largest school in the district. ????? That is what made the $3,000 difference in the amount of money received. Number 1681 REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER moved to report HB 191 as amended out of committee with individual recommendations and the attached fiscal note. There being no objection, it was so ordered.
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